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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Westmorland » Thu May 14, 2015 7:15 am

Zero hours contracts are wrong, its like something out of a Dickens Novel and the workhouse

It may be okay for anyone who has had a decent redundancy package and doesn't really need the money or is just working to fill in the time due to boredom

I don't really take any notice of surveys of polls as the General Election proved they are not accurate, indeed sometimes their figures are way out

If a company can not pay contracted hours they are not worth working for, as they use and abuse. Its like these Far East sweatshops were people produce clothes for Primark for 20 pence a day.

Thankfully I have never worked for any company that has had zero hours contracts and never would

Zero hours contracts affects your NI contributions,so at the end of the day could affect your right to state pension or benefits if ever needed

You may not need the money Caz but i'm sure a young family does
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Caz » Thu May 14, 2015 8:51 am

Adrian, how can you say zero hours contracts are wrong? You're not on a zhc and I am. You think they're wrong and I don't. I am one of 30 people who choose to work that way and we're all ages with different circumstances. Even if I didn't have other income, I'd still choose to do it and it's not a sweatshop. I get far less stress than I did from my previous job and I can come home and leave work behind.

How can you say they're sweatshops when you've never worked in a place with zhc's. I don't work in a sweatshop. I work for a company that is trying to build up its business and I want it to be a success because I really like the people I work for and I think what they're doing is admirable. I agree that a young family need more security, but I'm not a young family. The point is, I choose it and a young family can choose differently. Nobody HAS to take a job without a contract. It's not about whether you need the money or not, it's about whether you want to work or not and how you want to work. We all have different circumstances at different times of our lives, so as I keep saying, one size does not fit all. At one time of my life, I wouldn't have chosen to work this way but I do now and I want to keep that choice.

ZHC's do not affect your NI contributions. NI is paid on how much you earn, not on what type of employment contract you have. If you earn above the threshold, you pay NI and so does your employer. I think you have the wrong idea about what a zero hours contract is. All employment law applies whether you're contracted or not and you pay tax and NI just as everyone employed does. All it means is that you may not work regular hours. In my case, I tend to work more than 40 hours a week sometimes and I do that by choice. I don't have to if I don't want because I'm not bound by a contract.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Wizard » Thu May 14, 2015 10:08 am

Adrian, your views are so one sided and outdated they are unbelievable.
As per my previous post, how on earth can you expect a business to pay three peoples wages for three months when there is no work for them until the new order comes in??
Obviously, you have no concept of running a business, or you wouldn't be offering to keep them on at a cost of around £10,000 for the three months that they are making the tea, as no work is available.
Zero hour contracts are the way forward for small businesses, and if ANY government puts a stop to them, we will just have to offer weekly contracts for casual workers.
The days have gone where you had big numbers of people working in businesses.
Competition is too tight, profit margins are too low, and if people are out of work (and WANT to work) they would be glad to pick up a few weeks work here and there.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Westmorland » Thu May 14, 2015 12:00 pm

Wizard My ideas are not outdated they are just different to yours and you can not accept this.

You take people on a temporary contract not zero hours contract, if you only have work for 3 or 6 months then employ via an employment agency for those 3/6 months on a proper contract of 35 or 40 hours a week every week for 3/6 months so that person knows they will get that amount of hours/pay for that period.

Clearly my standards in life are very high and I believe everyone should have right to a regular contract with the same amount being paid to them each week or month so they can budget and live without having to use food banks or the many charity shops that are appearing. I am against workers being exploited by zero hours contracts by people that belong in an Oliver Twist novel. They need to be named and shamed.

If I find any shops or businesses in Warsop using zero hours contracts then I will boycott them, same for anywhere else in the area.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Westmorland » Thu May 14, 2015 12:16 pm

As a member of Parliament mentioned a few months ago on PMQs a constituent of his in the North East, walks five miles to work and back and is on a zero hours contract, he can't afford the bus fare or taxi fare, he gets there one day and is told there is NO work for him, what a despicable way to treat an employee.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Caz » Thu May 14, 2015 12:27 pm

Adrian, I just want to clarify what zero hours contracts are because I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about how they work.

Where I work, the nature of the business is such that we never know when a job might come in, so workload fluctuates. During July and August, there is very little work, so the company has little income and needs fewer staff. Between October and May, we sometimes have more work than we can cope with, so some of us choose to work 12 hour shifts and weekends to get the work done to deadlines and occasionally we have to get agency staff in as well. If we do the job well and on time, we're likely to get repeat work, which in turn builds up the business, creates employment and boosts the economy.

We get paid for the hours we work and by law it has to be at least minimum wage rate of £6.50 per hour, we pay tax and NIC's, we get holiday pay etc but when we're not working we obviously don't get paid. When the company doesn't have work, it doesn't have an income, so if they had to pay us when there's no work they'd have to put up their prices for the work we do and we'd price ourselves out of the market. If all companies had to pay staff for not working, all prices would go up and everybody would pay more in the shops etc. If our company closed, there would be 30 people out of work and if zhc's were abolished, many other people would be out of work and on the dole, so the economy would suffer as the country would be less productive and we'd be paying more out in benefits.

Zero Hours Contracts is a relatively new term that refers to casual employment, or, as and when required. Many industries employ people on such terms to cope with the natural fluctuation of workload and it's particularly useful when the economy is in such a delicate state. It allows businesses to take the plunge without fearing having to pay out redundancy payments etc. It also enables them to keep the staff who are already trained to do their jobs and it also allows them to make the most of the best workers. So it works both ways - for the employer and the employee.

When I worked in local government, I had to manage the workload of my staff and I had a bank of staff I could call in as and when required - zero hours contract staff. It allowed me to build up the business and I was able to employ some on a permanent basis after a while. It also gave them work experience so they were able to go on and get other jobs. It also gave them the opportunity to choose their work hours to fit around other commitments, whilst earning a decent wage. Yes, that was local government, so I don't think Miliband had done his homework before doing all the shouting about how wrong zero hours contracts are.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Caz » Thu May 14, 2015 12:33 pm

Adrian Hardy wrote:Wizard My ideas are not outdated they are just different to yours and you can not accept this.

You take people on a temporary contract not zero hours contract, if you only have work for 3 or 6 months then employ via an employment agency for those 3/6 months on a proper contract of 35 or 40 hours a week every week for 3/6 months so that person knows they will get that amount of hours/pay for that period.

Clearly my standards in life are very high and I believe everyone should have right to a regular contract with the same amount being paid to them each week or month so they can budget and live without having to use food banks or the many charity shops that are appearing. I am against workers being exploited by zero hours contracts by people that belong in an Oliver Twist novel. They need to be named and shamed.

If I find any shops or businesses in Warsop using zero hours contracts then I will boycott them, same for anywhere else in the area.


People who work through agencies are on zero hours contracts. Everyone does have the right to a regular contract if they want one but some of us don't. Everyone has the right to choose! If I wanted a regular contract I'd get a different job and that's a choice everyone has. If zero hours contracts were abolished, we wouldn't be able to choose.

Why do you say people on zero hours contracts are being exploited? I'm not being exploited! People don't have to do the work, they can get regular contracted jobs if they choose to.

Do you have any examples of people being exploited? Did you used to deliver Warsop News? If so, you were on a zero hours contract.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Caz » Thu May 14, 2015 12:38 pm

Adrian Hardy wrote:As a member of Parliament mentioned a few months ago on PMQs a constituent of his in the North East, walks five miles to work and back and is on a zero hours contract, he can't afford the bus fare or taxi fare, he gets there one day and is told there is NO work for him, what a despicable way to treat an employee.
Then the problem was with the company he worked for and not with the zero hours contract. If that happens the worker can take it up with ACAS.

I would suggest anyone being treated that way should look for another job.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Caz » Thu May 14, 2015 12:48 pm

Adrian Hardy wrote:I don't really take any notice of surveys of polls as the General Election proved they are not accurate, indeed sometimes their figures are way out

If a company can not pay contracted hours they are not worth working for, as they use and abuse.


I didn't answer these bits of your post. I agree about not taking notice of surveys etc. However, I am one of the people you seem to think are exploited and I'm telling you that I'm not, so please believe me!

I agree that if someone thinks a zero hours contract means the company isn't worth working for they should go elsewhere because they're not right for everyone and they're best leaving the zhc jobs for those who do want them. Yes, they do used people but isn't that what employment means. I don't agree they abuse though. If a company is abusing its workers then they're doing something unlawful and need reading the employment rights act but that can happen in regular contracted jobs too. All workers, whether contracted or not have rights because once you commence work for someone, you have a verbal contract, which entitles you to statutory rights.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Caz » Thu May 14, 2015 12:50 pm

:) Sorry Adrian. I've given you a lot to read there. My fingers just kept going.

Actually, this is a subject I feel very strongly about and I know most people don't understand the subject thoroughly enough, which is understandable if it's never really affected them.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Wizard » Thu May 14, 2015 2:27 pm

Adrian Hardy wrote:Wizard My ideas are not outdated they are just different to yours and you can not accept this.

You take people on a temporary contract not zero hours contract, if you only have work for 3 or 6 months then employ via an employment agency for those 3/6 months on a proper contract of 35 or 40 hours a week every week for 3/6 months so that person knows they will get that amount of hours/pay for that period.

Clearly my standards in life are very high and I believe everyone should have right to a regular contract with the same amount being paid to them each week or month so they can budget and live without having to use food banks or the many charity shops that are appearing. I am against workers being exploited by zero hours contracts by people that belong in an Oliver Twist novel. They need to be named and shamed.

If I find any shops or businesses in Warsop using zero hours contracts then I will boycott them, same for anywhere else in the area.


Wizard My ideas are not outdated they are just different to yours and you can not accept this.
I cannot accept your ideas because they are wrong!

You take people on a temporary contract not zero hours contract, if you only have work for 3 or 6 months then employ via an employment agency for those 3/6 months on a proper contract of 35 or 40 hours a week every week for 3/6 months so that person knows they will get that amount of hours/pay for that period.
All agency workers start on zero hour contracts, so in your statement you are encouraging people to work for an agency that gives workers a zero hour contract!!

Clearly my standards in life are very high and I believe everyone should have right to a regular contract with the same amount being paid to them each week or month so they can budget and live without having to use food banks or the many charity shops that are appearing. I am against workers being exploited by zero hours contracts by people that belong in an Oliver Twist novel. They need to be named and shamed.
Start off by naming and shaming the Agencies who employ these people on zero hours contracts. Please try and understand that not everyone is being exploited by ZHC. It actually suits some people, it really does!!

If I find any shops or businesses in Warsop using zero hours contracts then I will boycott them, same for anywhere else in the area
. You won't be seen in Sports Direct any time soon then !!

I don't think you can actually grasp the fact that businesses are run to make a profit, and that profit is made by paying workers to work, not wait around.
As Caz has mentioned, zero hours contracts work well at her place, just as it does in other places.
In an ideal world, most people would be working full time on 40 hour contracts for 5 days a week, but this would not suit the people where Caz works, so it is impossible to please everyone.
Businesses need to cut costs to make a profit, and if it means paying workers when needed, then so be it.
Working practices have moved on, and you need to move with them too.
Remember in the olden days when shops only opened from 9am-5pm, and closed on Sundays?
Did you raise a fuss tring to stop them opening on Sundays?
The world keeps on turning, and if you don't move with it and make changes, you will fail in business
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Caz » Thu May 14, 2015 2:50 pm

Zero hours have always existed, they were just called casual or as and when required. Even as teenagers we did casual work such as paper rounds. I used to do singling, weeding and potato picking for the local farms when I was at school, as did many others and we weren't contracted to do the work. Employment agencies have existed for decades as well. Many years ago I worked through an agency as a secretarial temp at Kings Mill and I wasn't contracted.

There are many companies and industries that have employed temps for years and it's a system that works. I don't agree with people being exploited, but that happens in contracted jobs. The issue shouldn't be with zero hours, it should be with employment conditions and the enforcement of employment rights.

Until this election campaign not many people had even given the subject a minute's thought but Miliband made it an issue and others have followed like sheep. They haven't given a thought to the consequences but it sounded like a vote winning issue and he made people think zhc's were a bad thing, except most of those who are on them and the employers who need to employ temporary staff.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Westmorland » Thu May 14, 2015 2:51 pm

My ideas are not wrong Wizard, its people like you that are wrong and no doubt you will soon be sending young boys up chimneys

Caz may like Zero hours but that's up to her, there are thousands of people who don't like zero working hours but are frightened to speak out

I have bought numerous sports items to send to Australia to family but I have never ever purchased anything from Sports Direct and never will. I am a man of principle and my principles are not up for sale

A good company is like Markerstudy Insurance in Chesterfield ,a privately owned company run by a self-made millionaire called Kevin Spencer

£17 500 per anum working for 40 hours a week
pension which they contribute to
health benefits
life insurance
£200 Marks and Spencers Vouchers at Christmas
He hires Thorpe Park amusement park for a day for a staff day out its closed to all other people
Organises Peter Andre and others to perform at a staff day out in Tundbridge Wells all paid for by him
he gave away 15 vauxhall Corsa's to staff in a competition
He gives £250,000 to a staff Mastermind quiz, I myself won some of it
Good working conditions
Alot of other good staff benefits as well

But above all staff are rewarded and know they are valued

He doesn't know when people are going to have road accidents but he doesnt lay people off when its quiet they just sit there waiting for a claim to come in

Of course if you wish to work for these back street noddy little companies then that's up to you but most people want good wages job security a permanent contract with regular weekly hours and a sense of being valued

No Bank or BuildingSociety will lend to anyone on Zero hours

Wizard regarding Sunday opening I was where you should be on a Sunday when Sunday opening hours were brought in, on my knees in church and yes like many church goers I did oppose it and still do
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby BigAl » Thu May 14, 2015 3:04 pm

I was on a zero hours contract for an agency before i retired abroad. I found it to be very useful as i could only do 2 or 3 days at a time through health reasons. Needed to have time when i needed it and not when a boss said i could.
I can see both sides of the argument and Adrian has mentioned a few good points as have Cas and Wizard. A contract for those who want one, especially the younger workers, is a good thing just as a zero hours contract is when it suits the person involved. Is the point not that people should have the right to choose what they want and how they want to work ?
If someone wants to live in a world where everyone is told where and when they have to do something, work, have holidays and who to vote for in an election etc etc then move to North Korea or some other dictatorship. Me i prefer the democratic way of life and choose my own path.

Pensions can be a downfall as i found out when i was made redundant at the start of the crash and my boss went under. I went to sign on as i was told to do, and was told to go and find another job if i wanted one on my own. Not entitled to any help whatsoever and i was not to report every 2 weeks to sign on as i had paid in over 40 years and there were no more contributions needed. And all because i am in receipt of a military pension. A good return for 22 years service to my country don't you think. They just diddn't want to know so thats when i contacted the relevant people at the pensions office and places like that and decided to take early retirement and move.

Everyone is different and have different circumstances and reasons for doing something, if you take away the choice then you take away their rights.
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Re: Warsopians remember to vote

Postby Wizard » Thu May 14, 2015 4:26 pm

Adrian Hardy wrote:My ideas are not wrong Wizard, its people like you that are wrong and no doubt you will soon be sending young boys up chimneys

Caz may like Zero hours but that's up to her, there are thousands of people who don't like zero working hours but are frightened to speak out

I have bought numerous sports items to send to Australia to family but I have never ever purchased anything from Sports Direct and never will. I am a man of principle and my principles are not up for sale

A good company is like Markerstudy Insurance in Chesterfield ,a privately owned company run by a self-made millionaire called Kevin Spencer

£17 500 per anum working for 40 hours a week
pension which they contribute to
health benefits
life insurance
£200 Marks and Spencers Vouchers at Christmas
He hires Thorpe Park amusement park for a day for a staff day out its closed to all other people
Organises Peter Andre and others to perform at a staff day out in Tundbridge Wells all paid for by him
he gave away 15 vauxhall Corsa's to staff in a competition
He gives £250,000 to a staff Mastermind quiz, I myself won some of it
Good working conditions
Alot of other good staff benefits as well

But above all staff are rewarded and know they are valued

He doesn't know when people are going to have road accidents but he doesnt lay people off when its quiet they just sit there waiting for a claim to come in

Of course if you wish to work for these back street noddy little companies then that's up to you but most people want good wages job security a permanent contract with regular weekly hours and a sense of being valued

No Bank or BuildingSociety will lend to anyone on Zero hours

Wizard regarding Sunday opening I was where you should be on a Sunday when Sunday opening hours were brought in, on my knees in church and yes like many church goers I did oppose it and still do


As usual Adrian, when you cannot give a straight, logical answer, you resort to sarcasm.

Just to set your mind at rest, I won't be sending you or anyone else up a chimney. I stopped doing that years ago, when I discovered a brush could do the job cheaper!

Regarding Sunday working, I too was on my knees on Sundays, but my Sunday was spent down a coal mine, earning real money.
That is why I could afford to retire on a pension that you can only dream about!

You stated that you are a man of principles, so instead of complaining about something and trying to put a spin on it, take a look at yourself, and ask yourself this, Is it OK for you to shop on Sundays, if you oppose it so much? Because by making any purchases on a Sunday, including petrol, or from a corner shop, means that your principles count for nothing if can't stick to them.
The numerous sports items that you have bought and sent to Australia will most probably have been manufactured for Mike Ashley, who owns Sports Direct, in the very sweat shops you are trying to outlaw, as he holds the brand names of quite a few well known sports companies, so indirectly you will be giving money to someone who employs people on zero hours contracts!

The insurance company you mention must be grossly overcharging their clients if they can can afford to do all the things that you claim. Isn't that exploiting people by overcharging them on their policies?
Don't you feel guilty working for a company that makes so much profit that they can afford to give £250,000 for a quiz, £150,000 on cars, plus a small fortune on days out etc, when other people are on zero hour contracts?
Surely in your world no one should make a profit, so how can you be so hypocritical as to be part of it?
These" back street noddy little companies" that you refer to is very derogatory to anyone who is trying to make a living, as well as employing other workers, don't you think?
Britain was built on these "back street little noddy companies" and most of the shops in Warsop are run by their owners, so by being so rude about them is simply appalling.
As I have said to you previously, instead of criticising the shop owners of Warsop by calling them "back street little noddy companies" why don't you invest some of your fortune in Warsop to try and bring it up to your standard, instead of being so obnoxious?
Move with the times Adrian.
You have made a start by accepting shops can open on Sundays, but by endorsing the fact that your chosen company makes millions in profit, instead of reducing their premiums to allow people on low incomes ( OR ZHC)to pay less, you have scored an own goal.
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