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We have voted

Postby BigAl » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:56 pm

Voting forms for the referendum filled in and returned, Come on the yes vote :D :D
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Re: We have voted

Postby Caz » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:17 pm

Well, to be honest, I don't really have a clue with this and I'm more confused now than I was to begin with. I'm sick of hearing the politicians saying if we vote 'out' this will happen, then another will say, if we vote 'in' the same will happen. I think most people will vote blindly, without fully understanding it because understanding it is very difficult!
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Re: We have voted

Postby BigAl » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:52 am

The only thing i can help you with here Cas is to tell you what is happening this end. As you will have seen on the news, billions of £s are already moving out, The government here has announced that there are to be 5 new skyscrapers built on the outskirts of Madrid to accommodate the large companies who have decided to leave the Uk if there is an out vote. This happened last week after weeks of discussions between the firms and the government here. German press are reporting that the banking center of Europe will move to Dussledorf. Government here, as in Belgium, Holland and a few others, have also announced that it will be very difficult for expats to remain if the Uk leaves. so if it happens you will not have to worry about a couple of hundred thousand immigrants overloading the system as there will be up to 11 million pensioners coming home looking for hospital treatment, housing, benefits etc etc. If that don't kill the NHS and a few other systems i would be surprised, :D ,
But its each to their own to make their minds up and live with the consequences either way. :roll:
Have fun :roll:
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Re: We have voted

Postby Caz » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:08 pm

I've already considered a lot of what you mention Al, as well as a lot of other issues on both sides. I have swung from one decision to another but at least I am weighing it up, which is more than a lot of people are doing. Some people have very strong and blinkered views and refuse to look further than their noses. If only we had crystal balls. :D
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Re: We have voted

Postby Magic » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:32 am

I like to have hard data to back up the things I publish, so have been quite quiet on this subject :| :lol:
Quite a nice calm and trustworthy blog post from Martin Lewis here - http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/

So, who gets my vote? Well, I've not made a final decision yet so not afraid to change position but most likely going for staying in. Why? It's the safer option, it's the default option, and I've seen or heard nothing to really encourage me to take a leap out.
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Re: We have voted

Postby Caz » Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:00 pm

Yes indeed Magic. I tend to agree with you. Nothing has really persuaded me that I'll benefit by voting out. I'm thinking it's probably a case of better the devil you know. In the end, our future is dependant on our politicians, whether we're in or out of the EU and whatever the result is, I am in no doubt it will be the scapegoat for politicians.
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Re: We have voted

Postby chalky » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:00 pm

I hope you don't need any sort of medical care in years to come because its a nightmare trying to get to see a doctor now never mind in the future when millions more people have entered our once great country .also we will never be prosecuted for speeding as the roads will be too busy .people with children should also worry about school places for their kids.so my advice is vote leave
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Re: We have voted

Postby Caz » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:57 pm

It seems to me that the 'out' campaign is centering on immigration, which I don't personally think is our biggest problem and even if we get out of the EU and immigration is decided on a points system, such as age, ability to work etc, I think most of the current Eastern European immigrants would have passed on points.

The 'Stay' campaign is centering on the economy, which I think is important and the 'out' camp have said nothing about the economy that gives me confidence. I think we've been better off since we joined Europe, although I'm not saying it's 'because' we went into Europe.

The 'Out' campaign seems to be very pushy as well and makes statements that this will happen or that will happen, whereas the 'stay' campaign say what is likely to happen. I don't know how anyone can say what will happen on either side, so I think the 'stay' campaign is a little more near the point.

We'll see how it goes next week.
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Re: We have voted

Postby chalky » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:44 pm

so caz do you not think we are full all the politicians seem to say is we must build more houses .how many can we build as we don't seem to be building the infrastructure to cope with the influx of people .water the precious of the things we need to survive is going to be scarce in the future and as for electricity and gas how long before we run out and if you think the solar farms springing up in our area will make any difference think again we will probably have to take it in turns to have the power on .and I am not against immigration but it must be controlled as mr Cameron is saying we can control it if we stay in but forgive me for saying but are we not already in and has not he had plenty of time to do something but waits until now to pledge to do something ;I just hope its not as good apledge as the one he made to abolish the human rights law in the manifesto when the tories came to power.
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Re: We have voted

Postby Caz » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:00 pm

Yes, I think we're pretty full but we also have a lot of nationals living abroad in other European countries. If they all came back we'd be even more full. If we send home all the Eastern Europeans doing minimum wage jobs, our economy would suffer because there are not enough British people prepared to work for minimum wages.
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Re: We have voted

Postby BigAl » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:08 pm

Well, what a mess this is turning into.
Over £100 BILLION wiped off ( thats our pension monies )
£ at its lowest since the early 80s.
Taxes are to be increased and more cutbacks made on all public services.
Each household losing a good chunk of their monthly income in the very near future.

The government ( and as you know i hate the lot of them ) got it right about the outcome of a no vote.

All this caused by a bunch that have lied through their back teeth to the British public from the beginning. Led by the man that is looking favorite to be the next bloody prime minister.

The money for the NHS is now suddenly "not there", NHS may have to be made private to survive, ( Not my words but those of one of the out campaigners ) Oil prices set to rise as the pound slumps even more ( not forgetting all the oil and gas for the country is paid for in dollars ) as there is no energy production within the country. Northern Ireland in talks with the South with a view to becoming a single united Ireland and Scotland getting ready to break away and remain in the EU. Still have to take refugees and migrants ( not as many i agree ) but they are still coming.

And to top it all of we are now told that he referendum WAS NOT LEGAL. A referendum is an advisory tool for the government to use as it sees fit and has to be voted on and passed by both houses of government before it is ratified and becomes law, was not won by a majority of over 60% with the turnout of voters being slightly below the required %age. ( Which is a topic being seriously looked into by the legal eagles within Europe ) This could cost the country dearly if or when it goes to the courts. ( more of our taxes wasted ).

Both the main parties of government it total turmoil and not giving a monkeys for the general public but looking after their own backs ( as usual ).

I am not saying i told you so ( well i am really :D ) but i hope the people who voted " out " now realise that they were duped from the outset by the lies and deceit and are happy with the outcome.
Thank god i married a German ;)
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Re: We have voted

Postby chalky » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:35 pm

so big al is not happy with the result of the referendum but me thinks would he be shouting that the vote was illegal if the result had gone the other way.the people have voted so just put your dummy back in your pram and get on with life which will eventually get better because it could not get much worse .long live brexit
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Re: We have voted

Postby BigAl » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:13 pm

I have no preference either way though I did vote to stay. Personally it will not affect me and I am saying what I see happening from where I am. Today's reports are saying that the vote is not going to be ratified as the majority of MPs and the un_elscted house of lords members are determined to remain in Europe. ( Not my words but reports from around Europe after yesterday's meetings ). It may also be of interest that the EU has offered UK person who are resident in Europe a European passport. So I am staying in Europe whatever happens.
What is really bugging me is the fact that I put my butt on the line for my country in 3 wars and Northern Ireland to see all my efforts thrown away. I hate the fact that the UK is breaking up in this way and the way it's been done on the lies and deceit from politicians.
Never had a dummy :D beer bottle maybe :) and a pram was a pushchair ;) .

It's my grandchildren I feel sorry for who have got to suffer the rest of their lives .
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Re: We have voted

Postby BigAl » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:38 pm

Here is one of the reports i am referring to.



As I noted on Friday, Britain won’t be exiting the E.U. anytime soon. If and when the U.K. government invokes Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty of 2007, which grants member states the right to leave, there will be at least two years of negotiations about the terms of Britain’s future relationship with Europe. And that invocation of Article 50 is likely to be delayed for quite a while.

Prime Minister David Cameron’s decision to resign in the fall has stopped the clock until a new leader of the Conservative Party is elected to replace him, which won’t be until the start of September. Even if Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London, who helped lead the Leave campaign, were to win the leadership vote, it’s not clear when he would invoke Article 50. In a column for the Telegraph on Monday, Johnson said that Britain’s departure from the E.U. “will not come in any great rush.” Indeed, his primary intention seemed to be to prevent panic. “I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be,” he wrote.

As someone who has watched Johnson’s rise, with amusement, since he was a journalist living in Brussels and writing scare stories about the European Union for the Telegraph, I wouldn’t necessarily take anything he says at face value. In this instance, though, he may have inadvertently told the truth. Four days after the British public voted, narrowly, to leave the European Union, there are reasons to doubt that the referendum result will ever be implemented.

If Cameron had invoked Article 50 on Friday morning, Britain would now be on its way out: the exit process is irreversible. But thanks to the Prime Minister’s clever maneuver—which is surely what it was—the country has some time to reflect on the consequences of Brexit, which are already turning out to be far more serious than many of the people who voted Leave realized. In addition to plunging the country’s political system into chaos, the referendum result has prompted a big fall in the stock market and the value of the pound sterling, and it has raised questions about Britain’s creditworthiness. On Monday night, news came out that Standard & Poor’s had stripped Britain of its triple-A credit rating, another blow to investors. Ordinary people may be more concerned that, with the school holidays coming up, the cost of taking a European vacation, which many Brits of all social classes do every year, has jumped by about twelve per cent.

So far, then, the Leave vote has made people poorer, confirming some of the warnings that the British Treasury and other supporters of the Remain side had issued. Going through with Brexit would also have more lasting implications for British businesses, particularly those in the country’s enormous financial sector. Talk of big European and American banks quitting the City of London, which by many measures is the world’s largest financial hub, are exaggerated. But there is no doubt that some jobs would be relocated to places like Dublin, Frankfurt, and Paris. “The financial center won’t die, but it will get weaker,” John Cryan, the chief executive of Deutsche Bank, which employs about eleven thousand people in London, said on Monday.

Some respected economists are now predicting an economy-wide recession, and then there is the future of the British Union, which is much more ancient than the European Union. As the pro-Brexit writer Fraser Nelson pointed out in The Spectator on Monday, it is an exaggeration to say that a British departure from the E.U. would inevitably lead Scotland to declare independence from the U.K.—data from opinion polls doesn’t point in only one direction. It can’t be denied, though, that Brexit would create the biggest crisis in the relationship between England and Scotland since the 1707 Acts of Union, and it would also raise serious questions about the future of Northern Ireland, which receives a lot of funding from Brussels, and which, like Scotland, voted to Remain.

If Leave supporters could have foreseen the result of their votes, how many would have changed sides? Vox-pop interviews conducted in the course of the weekend indicated that at least some of them were having second thoughts. And one prominent Brexit campaigner has wavered as well. “When I put my cross against leave I felt a surge as though for the first time in my life my vote did count. I had power,” Kelvin MacKenzie, the former editor of the Sun, Britain’s biggest-selling newspaper, wrote on Monday. “Four days later, I don’t feel quite the same. I have buyer’s remorse. A sense of be careful what you wish for. To be truthful I am fearful of what lies ahead.”

As reality sets in, E.U. leaders may well be content to let the Brits stew in their own juices for a while. Initial talk of forcing the U.K. to begin the process of leaving straight away has been replaced by calls for patience. Monday’s edition of the Wall Street Journal quoted Angela Merkel’s chief of staff, Peter Altmaier, as saying, “Politicians in London should have the possibility to think again about the fallout from an exit.” To leave now, he added, “would be a deep cut with far-reaching consequences.” A majority of the politicians at Westminster probably agree with Altmaier’s analysis. But what, if anything, can they do to reverse the march toward Brexit?

One possibility being floated by some pro-E.U. campaigners is a vote in the House of Commons against invoking Article 50. During the weekend, a number of constitutional experts pointed out that, under the British system, sovereignty rests in Parliament, and so the Leave vote was purely advisory. “MPs are entitled to vote against it, and are bound to vote against it, if they think it’s in Britain’s best interest,” Geoffrey Robertson, a prominent British barrister, told the Independent. “It’s not over yet.”

To be sure, it’s not. But Parliament simply overriding the result of the referendum may not be a realistic option. More than seventeen million people voted Leave. If their preferences were to be ignored, civil unrest could well result. As Cameron said in announcing his intention to resign, “The British people have voted to leave the European Union, and their will must be respected.”

A more likely outcome is a general election, a second referendum, or both. In 2011, Britain switched to a system of five-year fixed-term Parliaments, and under that system the next election isn’t due until 2020. But the Brexit crisis has already generated calls for the fixed term to be junked. In the Commons on Monday, Nick Clegg, the former leader of the Liberal Democrats, who served as Deputy Prime Minister from 2010 to 2015, called for an early election. Cameron didn’t reject the idea. He said that it would be for his successor, the next leader of the Conservative Party, to decide.

Most of the British politicians and commentators I’ve been in touch with in the past few days think that Johnson will be the next Prime Minister. But it’s far from certain that he could deliver what he has been promising: a break from the E.U. that preserves Britain’s full access to the single market. Several European officials have already said that the price of such a deal would be Britain agreeing to free movement of labor (as Norway, which is a member of the European Economic Area but not of the E.U., does). However, restricting immigration was a central plank of the Leave campaign.

If Johnson couldn’t guarantee British firms access to the huge European market, would he still support leaving the E.U.? Even he might have trouble answering that question with an enthusiastic “yes.” All indications are that Cameron’s resignation caught Johnson unprepared. Should he move into 10 Downing Street, he would face dissident backbenchers in his own party, and cries for an early election would be hard to resist. If one were called, the Liberal Democrats and the Labour Party, which by then may well have a new and more credible leader to replace Jeremy Corbyn, would probably campaign on a platform that promised another referendum. The opposition parties would get a good deal of support in this from the U.K. business community, and from the dissident Tories.

At this stage, it is impossible to say how all of this will play out: there are too many variables. When I started working on this post, my guess was that the odds of Brexit ultimately happening were about fifty-fifty, and possibly less. In the course of writing, I spoke to a couple of pro-E.U. people in London whose opinions I respect, and both of them said that I was being too optimistic. Passions have been inflamed, they pointed out, and many of the players have staked out positions that limit their flexibility.

Maybe I’ve fallen victim to wishful thinking; I hope not. The Britain I grew up in took pride in its common sense and pragmatism. Affinities for ideology and political extremism were regarded as suspect, European qualities. For the sake of Britain, and also of Europe, I hope that my countrymen and countrywomen rediscover their modest virtues before it’s too late. Watching from afar, it’s clear that a mistake has been made, and that it’s time for a rethink.
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Re: We have voted

Postby hopalong » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:08 pm

Al you have obviously been away too long. I fight for my country every day. If u are so passionate why are you not here? Sorry probably too personal. Please accept my apologies I am speaking from the heart. The country has voted to be out of the EU and rightly so. That is the wish of the electoarate. IF you voted in u r voting for a communist style government. The European Commission, that Politburo of 28 UNELECTED members propose all laws, which are then passed onto the European parliament to be voted on, of course as directed. The EU Commision are totally unaccounted for and UNELECTED. Without course to the Internet can you name more than a handful of the politburo? I very much doubt it. I have very many intelligent friends who cannot answer that question either.I am not stupid either I know of Tusk and Junkner, I did not even know the name of OUR commisioner Lord Long until he resigned this weekend.
Juncker only a few months ago, after Austria almost voted a right wing party into power said, "if you appoint a government WE do not like there will be sanctions". Communist style or what? After the French,the Irish voted NO it was try again until you produce the vote we want. PS that was for the Lisbon Treaty. Recently the Dutch voted against the Ukrainian trade agreement. What did the UNELECTED do but carry on regardless.
If Totalaritarianism is what you want well we here in England do not, nor do we want a right wing government either. On the eve of the Battle of The Somme where our forfathers fought fought Democracy, I am proud that yet again we fight for that same principle I want freedom for ALL people. Of course I voted out I and I am far from racist, ask my friends, I am not anti immigration, as a country that has always and always will be part of our culture. I am certainly not anti asylum seekers and in my vision of the UK they would be welcomed. I too would flee war and hope to be accepted somewhere. But have YOU AL, seen young male foreigners walk down Warsop High Street because I have, where are their suffering families. Every town you walk through you are lucky to hear an English voice. As I have said I have many friends around the world so don't call me a racist BUT this cannot go on.
There is no doubt that we are leaving the EU. Any elected government here cannot ignore the wishes of the people whoever likes it or not.
Whatever you Al, are hearing over there, is not what will happen. Fact is the EU export to us 2.5 times more than we export to them. If you listen to any genuine media you will allready be aware that the rest of the world want trade with the UK. The EU dream and the Euro is over they are already saying everything is on the table for negotiation.
P.S. I am sorry I have not been involved in other discussionson this site but the Camelion destroyed any other opinions. YOU ALL know what I mean
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